A Sand Flea type sander

[jnimz]

What do you mean, "who my parents really liked"??? I "really" liked them too! David, Steven, Graham and Neil were great together!

Heh. Well, I am not saying I *don't* like them, but they grew up with them. By the time I was aware of music, they had long since moved on to other ventures. But their music is absolutely timeless.

[Gene Howe]

How does one learn to NOT loose a finger? One learns by having someone knowledgeable show them.

Totally agree. My concern is for those who didn't/don't have access to that knowledge. I truly mourn the demise of manual arts classes.

One also learns by reading safety manuals, and heeding instructions about the safety devices present on their tools.

Absolutely!

Not everything need be learned by direct experience, else how would we ever have gone in to space? You don't have to subject modern astronauts to all the risks that those pioneers were subjected to, just as new woodworkers need not work with open saw blades to "properly" learn woodworking.

True, but it helps if one can see some operations and get that queasy feeling in the pit of the gut. It doesn't need to be seen in person...videos, even stills can get the point across. I remember a picture of a finger with all the attached tendon and muscle dangling from it. The unfortunate soul who belonged to the finger had jumped off the back of a truck and his ring finger caught between the slats of the stake bed. That photo hung on our ready room wall to remind everyone to remove their rings. To this day, jewelry (not to mention loose long hair and baggy clothing) is verboten in my work places.

I guess my point is that so many unsafe conditions have been eliminated that those coming after us may walk into some very dangerous situations, totally unaware. It's not complacency, it's ignorance. Not every situation is covered in "The Manual". And common sense is not innate.

I can still have respect for the tools I use, and STILL have the benefit of all the safety devices.

If all generations of humanity were as horribly incompetent/unruly/depraved, etc., as the previous generation(s) believed them to be then humanity would have disappeared in to a morass long, long ago. To paraphrase Crosby, Stills, Nash, & Young, (who my parents really liked) "Teach our children well...and know they love you." :D

Yes, we can and hopefully do, teach our children well....about the things WE know. Only life's experiences and their curiosity can teach them the rest.

[JPG40504]

This litigious society has diminished much of what used to be dangerous. In so doing, the simple awareness of potential danger is also diminished. Especially for those who don't have the benefit of experience or first hand knowledge.
Many of those who've posted in this thread have related the dangerous practices they've seen or experienced. They are aware. I don't, for a minute, believe that they either condone or even accept an inherently or potentially dangerous situation. Hindsight IS foresight.
It's what you don't know that'll bite you. Ignorance is truly bliss until you are bitten.
I fear for those who, for whatever reasons, do not possess the knowledge gained from experience that keeps many of those old grizzled woodworkers safe today.

Litigious ness has caused typical 'safety warnings' included with just about everything to become ineffective!

Do we really need two pages of warnings for a picture frame(chosen totally arbitrarily and sarcastically)?

How many times have you read power cord size warnings for a product which runs on batteries?

The effect of this overkill is to cause just about everyone to totally ignore this section of the instructions.

WHERE THERE IS TRULY A DANGER STATE IT IN NO UNCERTAIN WORDS(NO LEGALEZE).

DO ***NOT*** INCLUDE IRRELEVANT MATERIAL.

KISS!

If 'warnings' are of reasonable length the intended audience is more likely to read it.

The legal beagles are more interested in protecting their clients from possible litigation brought on by "one of their own"!:(

Thus 'safety warnings' have become more of a device to preclude the authors/manufacturers/sellers from the risk of being sued than to actually protect the consumer from physical harm.

Where's the logic in that scenario????????:rolleyes:

[charlese]

....
Thus 'safety warnings' have become more of a device to preclude the authors/manufacturers/sellers from the risk of being sued than to actually protect the consumer from physical harm.

Where's the logic in that scenario????????:rolleyes:

After fully agreeing with all of the above two posts re: lawsuits, etc. I have an answer to that question.

The logic in that scenario extends from the desire of the employed attorneys to keep their jobs.

Protect the consumer??? Not a requirement! Every once and a while, attorneys need a law suit in order to prove their value by making an atrocious settlement while claiming they saved their client loads of $.

[a1gutterman]

Litigious ness has caused typical 'safety warnings' included with just about everything to become ineffective!

Do we really need two pages of warnings for a picture frame(chosen totally arbitrarily and sarcastically)?

How many times have you read power cord size warnings for a product which runs on batteries?

The effect of this overkill is to cause just about everyone to totally ignore this section of the instructions.

WHERE THERE IS TRULY A DANGER STATE IT IN NO UNCERTAIN WORDS(NO LEGALEZE).

DO ***NOT*** INCLUDE IRRELEVANT MATERIAL.

KISS!

If 'warnings' are of reasonable length the intended audience is more likely to read it.

The legal beagles are more interested in protecting their clients from possible litigation brought on by "one of their own"!:(

Thus 'safety warnings' have become more of a device to preclude the authors/manufacturers/sellers from the risk of being sued than to actually protect the consumer from physical harm.

Where's the logic in that scenario????????:rolleyes:Actually, I think that is perfect. The manufacturers/whoever are protected from lawsuit due to all the warnings they provide, so it comes down to the consumer/user actually having to be responsible for his/her own actions!

[JPG40504]

Actually, I think that is perfect. The manufacturers/whoever are protected from lawsuit due to all the warnings they provide, so it comes down to the consumer/user actually having to be responsible for his/her own actions!

I agree iff the end user in an intelligent being who thinks HE/SHE/IT is responsible for HIS/HER/ITS actions or inaction.

Sadly that is a declining minority! We have become a minority due to the well intentioned but impossible effort of some to make the world "safe" for idiots.

Yes the only logic is to the 'employed' legal beagles.

Too bad for the rest of 'us'!:(

[Gene Howe]

Gee JPG, It took me two posts and too many words to try to get to what you, so succinctly, were ably to say in just a few.

I build the way I talk. My saw sled must weigh 80 lbs.:o

Gene

[JPG40504]

Gee JPG, It took me two posts and too many words to try to get to what you, so succinctly, were ably to say in just a few.

I build the way I talk. My saw sled must weigh 80 lbs.:o

Gene
I used quite a bit more than A FEW!:eek: THANKS