biscuit joiner VS dowels

[dlbristol]

I have now committed to ( or maybe should be committed for) building a mission style bed. The plans call for either dowels or biscuit joinery. The posts on the bed are 2 1/2 in square, so a bigger dowel jig is required. This plan has joints that I have not done before. Like a 3 in wide face onto a 3/4 edge.

I am going to have to buy either a wide dowel jig ( 2 1/2 in capacity for the posts) or a bisquit joiner to do the project. My research suggests $60-$80 for the jig or $150++ for the joiner. Any help you can give me in picking would be appreciated. Most of the weight will be carried on the side frame members, but I have concerns about the biscuit joint from the frame component to the posts on the head and foot boards. Is that an issue? I could do tenons on those if needed.
Second question. Is the SS biscuit joiner an option here? There are some used ones available that are cheaper than the newer portable ones. I know virtually nothing about this type of joinery.

For what it is worth, I decided to pass on the through- tenon option on this project!! : I might do the "fake" tenon, but then again I might just be real pleased with a good clean and strong joint. Thanks guys, I have come to expect great advice and you have never failed me!

[8iowa]

Last summer I made a work bench out of 2"x4" stock. The bench was eight feet long and I attached the legs to the upper rails using two "stacked" biscuits as shown on page 60 of "Joining Wood" by Nick Engler.

I used the Shopsmith biscuit joiner with a ball bearing roller stand outbound of the Shopsmith table to support the long rails. With Titebond II glue I don't think a sledge hammer could break the joint.

[charlese]

... The posts on the bed are 2 1/2 in square, so a bigger dowel jig is required. This plan has joints that I have not done before. Like a 3 in wide face onto a 3/4 edge.

My research suggests $60-$80 for the jig or $150++ for the joiner. Any help you can give me in picking would be appreciated. Most of the weight will be carried on the side frame members, but I have concerns about the biscuit joint from the frame component to the posts on the head and foot boards. Is that an issue? I could do tenons on those if needed.
Second question. Is the SS biscuit joiner an option here? There are some used ones available that are cheaper than the newer portable ones. I know virtually nothing about this type of joinery.

For what it is worth, I decided to pass on the through- tenon option on this project!! : I might do the "fake" tenon, but then again I might just be real pleased with a good clean and strong joint. Thanks guys, I have come to expect great advice and you have never failed me!

Hi dlbristol!

If I understand your questions correctly:
1) Biscuits are, like 8iowa pointed out, perfectly capable of making a good joint between posts and head/foot board frames.

2) Yes the SS biscuit joiner could do the job. You would need to develop some outboard support for the boards.

Personally, I would opt for dowels or a floating/loose tenon as being the easiest to construct. You don't need to buy a dowel jig for dowels in the 2 1/2" posts. You could use either the vertical drill press or horizontal drill press. Both of these would also require outboard support to hold the other ends of the boards. With the Shopsmith drill you could place the dowels in the center of the posts or off center if you desire. No problem. I assume you have one of those dowel jigs that will center dowel holes in a board. These come with little centering spikes to locate the center of the adjoining board. You could make the dowel holes in the posts first, then use the centering spikes to locate where to drill the holes in the 3/4" piece.

A loose tenon is not really loose. It is really a small board that slides into mortises on both pieces and is glued in place.

Either dowels, tenons, or biscuits would work nicely in this situation, it's your pick.

To go a bit further. I recommend you do make the through dowel "fake" stubs. You will be a lot happier with the looks of the bed!

P.S. I have done through tenons one time. They are tough to fit and you should had quarter grain stock, and not exceed 3" tenon width. The hard part is to get the tenon to go all the way through the mortise with full contact and without having a gap at the outside edge.

[dlbristol]

Thanks, I had not thought about not centering the stringers! After looking at the plans again, they call for an off center installation! I would just as soon use the dowels, but I have struggled getting things lined up exactly in the past. I'm a bit nervous about getting holes in the ends of the rails as they are 60in and 80 in long. Every thing else in much shorter, and not to difficult to get lined up.
My initial thought would have been to drill the holes on the ends of the rails and then use the marking points to locate on the posts. I assume you would need a lot of support outboard. I can do that with the tables and support rods and legs, Then add a long extension to the miter gauge for positioning the stock?

I have had better luck with tenons, but the length still bothers me.

[charlese]

dlbristol - If I am correct the dowel holes for the posts would be about 12" to 14" fro the ends. You can do this in the horizontal mode using a support for the other end. For more support you can use the fence for backup and clamps to secure the rail to the table

Frame boards can be either hand drilled with one of those little jigs, or drilled using the SS in horizontal mode, with headstock all the way left and the axillary table on the right side. I'd pick the Shopsmith.

[dlbristol]

Good thoughts!! I suspect the exact vertical location of the rails is not as critical as getting them all the same on each post and rail end. your method would allow me to set up once to do the posts and once to do the rails would make sense. I'll keep figuring and listening to you guys. Thanks

[foxtrapper]

A biscuit joiner is sloppy across the face of the biscuit. So you'd have to extra carefull to hold things in alignment this way.

Because of this slop, the biscuit is not going to contribute much in the way of strength to this joint. The load from a person in the bed will be along the weakest axis of a biscuit joint. Essentially, you're going to be counting on the glue, and nothing else, to hold it all together.

I'd be much more inclined to use dowels myself for this joint. I like biscuits, and enthusiastically use my biscuit jointer. But I don't think this is the right application.

[reible]

Hi,

If I'm reading this right you are talking about the joints between the head/foot board and the rails, and if so please thing about the following.

Rockler and other like stores sell several systems for doing this, all that allow you to take the joint apart. There are bolts (99277), bed rail hooks (38606) bed rail fasteners (30247) (28589) (28597)... all numbers from the rockler catalog page 66 current catalog.

I would strongly advise using a method that lets you disassemble those joints for anytime you might need to move the bed. That might be in the case of actual moving to another house or even if you need to get new carpet in the room. At least think about how you will get the bed into the room after you have made it... remember the story about the guy who builds this boat in the basement...

Ed

I have now committed to ( or maybe should be committed for) building a mission style bed. The plans call for either dowels or biscuit joinery. The posts on the bed are 2 1/2 in square, so a bigger dowel jig is required. This plan has joints that I have not done before. Like a 3 in wide face onto a 3/4 edge.

I am going to have to buy either a wide dowel jig ( 2 1/2 in capacity for the posts) or a bisquit joiner to do the project. My research suggests $60-$80 for the jig or $150++ for the joiner. Any help you can give me in picking would be appreciated. Most of the weight will be carried on the side frame members, but I have concerns about the biscuit joint from the frame component to the posts on the head and foot boards. Is that an issue? I could do tenons on those if needed.
Second question. Is the SS biscuit joiner an option here? There are some used ones available that are cheaper than the newer portable ones. I know virtually nothing about this type of joinery.

For what it is worth, I decided to pass on the through- tenon option on this project!! : I might do the "fake" tenon, but then again I might just be real pleased with a good clean and strong joint. Thanks guys, I have come to expect great advice and you have never failed me!