SS jionter vs other brands

[charlese]

Dusty;

Now, puttn, my answer to your question (You guys have been down that road--what do you find, working with precision machinery or machinery that just gets the job done and doesn't break the bank?) ...

And, most of all, you can't go wrong with Shopsmith. As I've stated before: even with all of the machinery I've got, I WILL NOT part with my SS. It's simply too good of a machine.

I am amused by the claims of some machinery "experts" that quote settings and tolerances to a thousand of an inch. There is a Sweedish made machine, can't recall the name, has three motors all 3hp - has a built in sliding table, a moulder, a jointer and of course a saw. Sells for $10,000 and more. My son's working compadre bought one. When someone had the guts to ask what are your projects - The answer was "my shop is the project".

Saw blade manufactures also give me a kick when the tune the blades and make little slots in them to prevent vibration.

I have had good luck with SS carbide saw blades. I use mostly red oak. My shop is running about 250 days per year. After 10 years, I got a second 1/8" carbide blade from SS. Just bought the three 3/32" (thin blade) set with arbors because I was curious. They also work fine. Had to switch back to the 1/8" blade for making 6 light doors for a corner cabinet. Found there is not very much difference in the pull on the motor between 1/8" and the thin ones. There is also no difference in the quality of cut. Both are pretty precise for ripping and crosscutting.

Now to what I wanted to say; If your machine can make cuts that are within 1/32" - what more would you want? The SS sure can!! Fitting pieces together usually requires some "fitting". 1/64" is not too much to trim.

Why do so many tout the accuracy of their machines, when it is all with the operator anyway?

[putttn]

Eric, she's seen some of my projects so now that I have the SS maybe she will have more faith in what it might look like. All the tool I own are pretty sparse and old. They still work so that one good thing and I'm learning from this site so hopefully I'll get going with some projects after I attend the school next week. Really confusing as to what equipment to buy and the SS joiner and planer look like they's be near the first on the list. Either that or the DeWalt from what everyone has said so far on this thread.

[charlese]

This post is really just for fun. I think not many folks have the need for such a piece of equipment but if you want a look - here it is.
http://usa.felder-gruppe.at/?page=maschinen_ausstattung&xat_code=a735390320ef842f0a69#tblHead

Sorry for my earlier mistake. The three motors on this machine are 4 hp ea. not 3 as I said in my earlier post. If anyone has a need for a jointer table of 1640 mm length (64.5 ") - here it is! Base price $15,795 (+any price increases)

For those who want the High Quality that money can buy this may be for you!

I wonder if the furniture turned out on this machine looks any better than the stuff comming off of My SS510. Doubt it!

[putttn]

Charlese, now that's what I'm talking about! Some of you guys probably have a whole lot more $$ in your shop than what that machine costs. I can emphathize with that one fella who says his shop is his project. I can tell from SS owners that there is certainly a pride of ownership. That may be half the fun of owning some of these expensive macines that are so well built. It seems if you look at what's been stated here there are two factions, one who is just interested in getting the most out of their dollar to get the job done and those who enjoy the pride of ownership in owning a precision machine. Getting back to the theme of this thread it seems you can certainly buy other brands that will get the job done but the SS group throws in pride of ownership that probably doesn't exist with other less expensive machines. Does DeWalt have a forum like this?

[dusty]

putttn

I'm not sure you can draw any conclusions from these observations. Ask a guy who has a tool box full of Craftsman tools what sort of wrench to buy and he probably won't tell you Snapon. Ask a guy who drives a big Ford what sort of truck to buy and he probably won't tell you Toyota.

Ask a guy who has just paid $2000 to get a transmission rebuilt in a car that bearly has breakin mileage and he'll probably advise against the model that he just repaired.

My Shopsmith satisfies almost all of my woodworking needs within the economic and geographic constraints that have been imposed. I, therefore, am a satisfied Shopsmith user.

Come back and ask again when in the same week I am forced to buy a new motor ($300), the bearings go out in the quill and I discover the way tubes are bent. You'll get a different assessment. I'll be even more dsisatisfied when I call the company to order repair parts and am told that "we don't provide support to that product line any longer" , "you'll have to contact this other guy down the street, he might be able to get those for you".

That happens at DeWalt, Black and Decker, Ryobi, even Porter Cable and others. The other guy is referred to as a Service Agent but he is still a provider that you are forced to go to and not one you chose.

That has been the one of the reasons why I enjoy my Shopsmith. It is also one of the reasons that makes the financial staus of Shopsmith (as reported in another thread) somewhat distressing.
___________________
Making Sawdust Safely

[ericolson]

I have to totally agree with you guys about this assinine trend towards gettings handtools (planes and such) and machinery adjusted to a tolerance of a thousandth of an inch. This is a REAL SORE POINT WITH ME!:mad: :mad: Why? Whywhywhywhwywhy?!? Yeah, Felder, Robland, Minimax are all excellent, well built machines. I don't need one, nor want one. My handplanes and chisels are sharp enough to...? You guessed it!! Plane and chisel wood!! I'm amazed at some of the experts out there that say you MUST have a plane so sharp that it HAS to cut a near microscopically thin shaving! Or the experts that say that your miter gauge MUST be square to the sawblade with a tolerance of a thousandth of an inch or you're working with junk! I absolutely will not spend $150 on a miter gauge! Nor will I spend anywhere from $300-$500 on a Lie Neilsen hand plane! I figure my flea market clunkers, cleaned up and sharpened, will (and DO) work just fine! If a craftsman in the 18 or 1900's could make masterpieces with those tools, then I can make my furniture with those tools. Don't get me wrong, a Lie Neilsen is a beautiful plane and feels wonderful in the hand, but it's just not necessary. These "experts" or "elite woodworkers", I call them wood snobs who forget where they came from. I've had the misfortune to meet a couple of them. Man! Talk about getting talked down to!! Now, of course, the majority of the pros I've talked to/learned from have been down to earth guys like us! Unfortunately, it seems like the snobs get all of the attention and their word is taken as gospel and joe blow woodworker who just wants to help his boy or girl do a Scouting project gets totally discouraged and gives up! The wood snobs that really get me going are the ones that "name" their project something totally off the wall like "Bear Walking in the Stream" (for a chair), or "Wind in Willow" (for a box), etc. Those're two examples I know of personally. It's a CHAIR, for cryin' out loud!! Actually, I sat in it and it wasn't very comfortable, anyway.
Whew. I gotta calm down. Sorry fellas. If I've offended anyone, I apologize. This subject just burns me up.
Anyway, puttn, half the fun of woodworking is putting together your shop. It might be a part of your garage and you go 100% SS, it could be like mine with both SS and stand alone, or it could be completely stand alone. It all just depends on what type of woodworking you do and where you see yourself going. I started out just wanted to build a new gate with a circular saw and drill. I got hooked. Bad hooked. Now, I'm on the verge of going pro. I've got jobs backed up three months all because I built a couple of end tables for a fella that wanted a unique gift for his wife. Word of mouth spread, I made some business cards on my computer, and it's kinda gotten out of hand. :D Bottom line: I enjoy it! And I make some extra bucks on the side.
As far as machinery, my pride in ownership is taking some derelict of a machine that, to most folks, would be junk for the landfill. Taking the time to restore a machine, give it new life, and see it work again, well, I really can't describe it. And I did it myself, with my hands, with my efforts. It's difficult for me to buy new when there are so many out there that, with a little effort, can work like new and give another 100 years' service. As I stated earlier, ANY machine can be made into a precision machine, provided you're willing to make the effort. Mine are funtional, but not to the point of precision for precision's sake. Mine cut and mill wood, that's it. To second charlese's comment: it's not the machine that makes the project, it's the craftsman.
And a last note before I parachute off of the enormous soap box I got myself on... you've already got five machines in your Shopsmith. I would recommend that you get a jointer first. A project will be much more difficult to complete unless you can make your stock straight and square. Most wood you can buy at a home center or lumber dealer is already milled, it just needs squaring. Then I would recommend you get a planer as, eventually, you'll start milling your own stock, either re-dimensioning purchased lumber or milling rough stock.
Fellas, my rant is over. For today, at least!:)

[putttn]

For a newbie like me that's what's so enlightening about this forum. You see I don't know about these experiences of poor customer service because I'm so new to this. So I'd just go buy the cheapest machine to get the job done and not know about the "other side". To try and make a decision about this tool or that tool is confusing because there is so much out there now to satisfy the job. Thirty years ago we didn't have the choices we do today so there wasn't much to try and compare. Now there's junk and quality, but both will do the job. It seems to me that there are other things one might consider when purchasing a tool and it really comes to light, to me, with the SS owners pride of ownership. There's other tools out there that will do the job, maybe even a little better at doing it, but the precision and quality built into the SS endear the owners to the brand. Customer loyalty is rampant with SS owners. I'm finding that owners of other brands just buy it for the pure ability to get the job done. There are others who do the same but really enjoy and embrace the quality worksmanship and are willing to pay extra to enjoy the "machine". That may be a part of this hobby that is not being addressed and I know that I have had a lot of fun just tinkering with the SS and haven't even done much with it woodworking wise yet. So to answer the original question of this thread, I think you have to decide what's most important-just getting the task done with the cheapest machine or getting the task done with a "precision machine" that just gives you enjoyment using it. Kind of a dilema for me since I'm just starting at age 63!

[putttn]

Eric, great now you've got me thinking about looking for some of the older quality machines too!! Back when they were made with quality AND to get the job done. Question, would you get a jointer first or a planer? What brands would you consider? I hope I can have your experience of going pro but I am really not too good at mechanical things. I really love em but not experienced at all.