Surface Rust Removal with Naval Jelly

[JPG40504]

Please understand, I'm not condemning anyone here, just a question... Although I haven't done it myself, I have questions about the baking of the baking soda thing... I've seen a number of videos on YouTube demonstrating the electrolysis process that just use Baking Soda with positive results. What I've read here is that baking the baking soda removes an H2O molecule and a C02 molecule, turning it into Washing Soda, but then you put it in Water, which is H20 again... and I've read that the solution will last forever, so what is the point of removing an H2O molecule only to add it back when you put it in water... Ends up, the only thing you're actually removing from the equation is a carbon dioxide molecule (C02). Is the removal of the C02 molecule really that important to the process?
You summed up my state of confusion completely! I hope we get a good answer.:)

[mickyd]

Please understand, I'm not condemning anyone here, just a question... Although I haven't done it myself, I have questions about the baking of the baking soda thing... I've seen a number of videos on YouTube demonstrating the electrolysis process that just use Baking Soda with positive results. What I've read here is that baking the baking soda removes an H2O molecule and a C02 molecule, turning it into Washing Soda, but then you put it in Water, which is H20 again... and I've read that the solution will last forever, so what is the point of removing an H2O molecule only to add it back when you put it in water... Ends up, the only thing you're actually removing from the equation is a carbon dioxide molecule (C02). Is the removal of the C02 molecule really that important to the process?

I can't do this justice in the few minutes I have right now but I will address this later. Tom, your comment about the H2O molecule.... The H20 bond that is going on is down at an atomic bonding level which is different than putting the stuff in water. Best comparison I can give you is this. You are Tom. You have H20 in your body. I put you in an oven at 300 degrees for a couple days. You release all your H2O molecules. You are very different when I take you out of the oven. I then throw you in the swimming pool. Will you ever be Tom again? Definitely NOT. You have been chemically altered. Same holds true with baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) that has been chemically altered into washing soda (sodium carbonate).

[JPG40504]

I can't do this justice in the few minutes I have right now but I will address this later. Tom, your comment about the H2O molecule.... The H20 bond that is going on is down at an atomic bonding level which is different than putting the stuff in water. Best comparison I can give you is this. You are Tom. You have H20 in your body. I put you in an oven at 300 degrees for a couple days. You release all your H2O molecules. You are very different when I take you out of the oven. I then throw you in the swimming pool. Will you ever be Tom again? Definitely NOT. You have been chemically altered. Same holds true with baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) that has been chemically altered into washing soda (sodium carbonate).
What else did Tom release while in the oven? For analogy to 'hold water' he needs to 'alter/lose' SOMETHING!:D

[tom_k/mo]

Mike, let me prefix this by stating, I AM NOT A CHEMIST and I will gladly bow to the greater intelligence of those that are... but I understand it is changing the Baking Soda (NaHCO3) at a molecular level, however... When added to water, baking soda DISOLVES, it is not suspended. The H20 molecule in Baking Soda would be a mute point, since when the baking soda is dissolved it would release the H20 molecule to the rest of the water, but the question I had is the additional CO2 molecule. It would be released also, leaving the Na (Sodium) molecule. CO2 in water is nothing more than carbonation, which would outgas. All I was trying to understand is how much difference there is in using Baking Soda and Baking Soda that's been baked. It seems to me that once dissolved in the water it's still pretty much the same.

PS: and I can guarantee, if you stick me in a 300F oven for 3 days, I'd give off SOMETHING.... :eek:

[mickyd]

I created a separate thread to continue the discussion of electrolysis since this one is going away from it's title .....Navel Jelly.

Continue electrolysis at this thread

http://www.shopsmith.net/forums/showthread.htm?p=34607#post34607