mickyd
05-29-2009, 12:53 PM
I want to gather some info from the forum on the ShopSmith E, ER via a poll or series of polls. Since it's so important that the poll is initially set up correctly, asking the right questions, keeping it open, allowing multiple response where applicable etc., I wanted to get some input from you guys as to the types of info that may be helpful to try and recreate some history.
Nick's post from a previous thread that discusses some history is below. It comes from the thread "shopsmith 10ER/10E, what is the difference? (http://www.shopsmith.net/forums/showthread.htm?p=21199#post21199)"
The Original Shopsmith 10E (“E” for Experimental) was introduced on November 8, 1947 and was made by Magna Engineering in San Francisco, CA. Although perhaps as many as 4000 machines were sold before Christmas of that year, it was not an instant hit. Sales flagged in early 1948 and it was not until Magna learned that they could sell the machines effectively at shopping mall demonstrations did it really take off.
The 10Es remained in production until late 1948, somewhere between serial number 15000 and 20000. By that time Magna was sure it had a winner and invested in dies for die casting (earlier parts were mostly sand cast), added pulley guards and saw guards, and made some other minor improvements. The new machine was dubbed the Shopsmith 10ER (“ER” for Experimental Revised). The exact date and serial number that marks the changeover from 10E to 10ER is unclear because apparently there were a lot of the 10Es still in the factory and these were upgraded before shipping -- the parts were interchangeable. Also, Magna most probably didn’t bring all the die cast parts on line at once, but phased them in over a time.
The nameplate on a 10E will say “10E” or just “E”. There will also be an “E” stamped or painted at the beginning of the serial number. Model 10ERs had an “ER” at the front of the serial number. Eventually there were two factories, one in San Francisco and another in Cleveland, Ohio. You can tell where your machine was made by the letter in front of the serial number. “R” means the machine was made in San Francisco, “E” designates Cleveland. For example R-E1000 is a 10E built in San Francisco; E-ER20000 is a 10ER built in Cleveland. Magna stopped this practice sometime in 1950 or 1951 (around serial number 60000), and you can’t tell where later machines were made.
There were approximately 20,000 10Es and 10ERs made each year until 1953; approximately 125,000 altogether.
Hope this was helpful.
With all good wishes,
I know the the yahoo ER group has more gurus, but there are enough E, ER machines right here in this forum that is worth sampling AND the forum format is much better. Not too crazy about the yahoo type forum format.
What kind of questions can you think of that would lend itself to polling responses? Here's a few I can think of
1. What model so you own?
a E
b)ER
2. What SN range does you model "E" fall into?
a)0-2000
b)2001-4000
c) continue in 2K increments to 20000 since about 20000 were made
3. What SN range does you model "ER" fall into?
a)15000-25000
b)25001-35000
c) continue in 10K increments to 125000
4. What is your SN format (I think I should get an idea of the various formats prior to posting poll. Nicks thread only mentions these but maybe there is more?
a) R-E xxxxxx
b) E-ER xxxxxx
c) Just a numeric serial number
5. How long have you owned your E, ER (s)
a)0-6
b)7-12
c) continue in 6 yr. increments to 60
Can't think of any others right now but I am sure there are more. Any input is appreciated.
Nick's post from a previous thread that discusses some history is below. It comes from the thread "shopsmith 10ER/10E, what is the difference? (http://www.shopsmith.net/forums/showthread.htm?p=21199#post21199)"
The Original Shopsmith 10E (“E” for Experimental) was introduced on November 8, 1947 and was made by Magna Engineering in San Francisco, CA. Although perhaps as many as 4000 machines were sold before Christmas of that year, it was not an instant hit. Sales flagged in early 1948 and it was not until Magna learned that they could sell the machines effectively at shopping mall demonstrations did it really take off.
The 10Es remained in production until late 1948, somewhere between serial number 15000 and 20000. By that time Magna was sure it had a winner and invested in dies for die casting (earlier parts were mostly sand cast), added pulley guards and saw guards, and made some other minor improvements. The new machine was dubbed the Shopsmith 10ER (“ER” for Experimental Revised). The exact date and serial number that marks the changeover from 10E to 10ER is unclear because apparently there were a lot of the 10Es still in the factory and these were upgraded before shipping -- the parts were interchangeable. Also, Magna most probably didn’t bring all the die cast parts on line at once, but phased them in over a time.
The nameplate on a 10E will say “10E” or just “E”. There will also be an “E” stamped or painted at the beginning of the serial number. Model 10ERs had an “ER” at the front of the serial number. Eventually there were two factories, one in San Francisco and another in Cleveland, Ohio. You can tell where your machine was made by the letter in front of the serial number. “R” means the machine was made in San Francisco, “E” designates Cleveland. For example R-E1000 is a 10E built in San Francisco; E-ER20000 is a 10ER built in Cleveland. Magna stopped this practice sometime in 1950 or 1951 (around serial number 60000), and you can’t tell where later machines were made.
There were approximately 20,000 10Es and 10ERs made each year until 1953; approximately 125,000 altogether.
Hope this was helpful.
With all good wishes,
I know the the yahoo ER group has more gurus, but there are enough E, ER machines right here in this forum that is worth sampling AND the forum format is much better. Not too crazy about the yahoo type forum format.
What kind of questions can you think of that would lend itself to polling responses? Here's a few I can think of
1. What model so you own?
a E
b)ER
2. What SN range does you model "E" fall into?
a)0-2000
b)2001-4000
c) continue in 2K increments to 20000 since about 20000 were made
3. What SN range does you model "ER" fall into?
a)15000-25000
b)25001-35000
c) continue in 10K increments to 125000
4. What is your SN format (I think I should get an idea of the various formats prior to posting poll. Nicks thread only mentions these but maybe there is more?
a) R-E xxxxxx
b) E-ER xxxxxx
c) Just a numeric serial number
5. How long have you owned your E, ER (s)
a)0-6
b)7-12
c) continue in 6 yr. increments to 60
Can't think of any others right now but I am sure there are more. Any input is appreciated.