View Full Version : Toolmonger Responses -- Mark V Hot or Not?
Below is a copy of the discussion of the Mark V's relative merits from toolmonger.com. I've had to split it into several parts to post it. I'll continue to update the responses for a few days as they appear so we have this runaway blog archived here. The source of these comments is: http://toolmonger.com/2007/11/05/hot-or-not-shopsmith-mark-v/#comments.
Responses to “Hot or Not? The ShopSmith Mark V” PART 1
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1. Rembret Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 1:43 pm
Not. For the same money you can buy good quality stand-alone versions of all the incorporated tools. They may save a little shop space, but I don’t have time to be constantly changing over from one tool to another.
2. Kurt Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 1:50 pm
I was talking about this just last week. I’m dying to hear what folks say. From what I’ve gathered, is that those that have seen it in action, think it’s a lot better than those that just read the price tag and features.
I know it’s priced out of my range, but I met a guy with one that makes musical instruments and he swears by it. And his stuff looks great and is tuned professionally. I know I wouldn’t turn one down.
3. TimW Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 1:52 pm
Hot. Space saving, outlet saving, and for the guy with only a garage available part time for a shop, it is easy to get out, use, clean up, and put away. And I inherited mine from my dad.
With a little planning you don’t have to change and change the tools back and forth.
4. Dave Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 1:55 pm
HOT - Not only is this machine capable of doing everything I need it to…the company provides excellent customer service, plus it is made in the U.S.A. and is built like a train!
5. Bob Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 1:59 pm
HOT - I’ve had mine since 83 and love it. It is built like a tank and Shopsmith has provided upgrades to the existing machine over all these years. The machine I have now is substantially different and better than it was in 83. I’m not a professional and don’t have a lot of space and I really appreciate the quality and continued support that I continue to get from the factory both in terms of parts, improvements and continued training.
6. Chris Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 2:33 pm
HOT - I got into the Shopsmith early this year. Quality is outstanding and the system’s versatility is limited only by the imagination. Once you are an owner and get on the company e-mail distributions, sale prices do come along on accessories.
7. Paul Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 2:39 pm
Hot. How many of us have a huge shop? Rembret says it “may save a little shop space”. Folks, it saves one hell of a lot of shop space.
Plus is is made in America and the quality is oustanding. So is the after purchase support. Ever try to get support from the other brand names?
8. Ed Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 2:40 pm
HOT- I got my first one in 1976 added a second used one a few years back. They are upgradeable to the current version (520) and just keep working.
I have had zero downtime but added a second machine as a back up thinking that on a 30 plus years old machine something might fail…. but even if something does fail I can still just order the parts and how many tools do you own that you can say that about??
Change overs for the most part can be done in a minute…. faster then you can drink a hot cup of coffee for sure.
Alignment once done stays that way, it has been almost 3 years since I did my last one and while I check it often it doesn’t require redoing very often (I only did that one because of the major upgrade I did.) I love my shopsmith!
9. Blane Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 2:42 pm
Hot. Upgrades and conversions are easy to do. The MarkV does a lot in a little footprint in the shop. This tool gives professional looking results. For exaxample the time it takes to convert from tablesaw mode to drill press only takes a couple of minutes, tops. This is a great tool to learn and grow with. I purchased mine as a 50th Anniversary edition. It has the capability to grow with you as your woodworking skills improve. With retractable casters it is easy to move the Mark V within the shop to rip or crosscut larger stock. My grandfather had a Mark V he purchased in the 1950s and used it to build his home. it was given to my uncle and he used it to build his home. The turning capabilities are awesome. With a movable headstock you can turn anything from pens to bowls to baseball bats. I wouldn’t have any other tool. You can’t beat the quality.
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End of Part 1
10. Gary Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 2:54 pm
HOT- Great customer support and focus on training, plus access to loads of other Shopsmith users who are great about offering advice and support. The Mark 5 is solidly built and, on the few occasions when something breaks or wears out, replacement parts are easily available and will still be available 50 years from now! Sure, I’d like to have a 2000 sq. ft. shop filled with top-end standalone tools, but I don’t. As it is, with my Shopsmith I can do my woodworking, clean up, then roll the Shopsmith into the corner and put the car back in the garage.
11. Nick Carter Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 3:10 pm
Home Shop Machinist recently had a multi part series about modding the Shopsmith for metalwork and tool sharpening - well worth a gander.
12. T Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 3:10 pm
Anybody got thoughts on the Smithy SuperShop? Same idea, different manufacturer.
13. Paul Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 3:18 pm
HOT - For all the reasons already stated: size, quality, reliability, versatility, expandability, customer service, etc. It is simply a quality, all-around tool suitable for woodworkers of almost any skill level.
14. jim Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 3:26 pm
HOT I bought my shopsmith used model 500. I had some woodworking tools but needed more as I got better into woodworking. All of my SS accessories I bought for it are at least 20 yrs old and they all still work. I can get parts if I need them from right here in the US of A. By owning one I am preserving jobs in the good ole U S of A. I could have bought stand alone tools to do the same job as I can do with my shopsmith. I like the fact that I have only one headstock to keep clean instead of a bunch of stand alone equipment. So clean up is a breeze and alignment on one tool is a breeze. By having sharp chisels, drill bits, saw blades I can do anything with my shopsmith just as good as an expensive standalone unit. Go figure to each their own.
15. Swedish Bob Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
Just a quick aside,
Would it be possible to re-order the above posts?
I nearly (and quite often do) only just read the first comment.
That would have been a real shame.
16. Paul Cohen Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 4:04 pm
HOT, I purchased mine in 1978 new as a 500, today I have upgraded it to a 520 with rip scale (state of the art by any measure). I has never broken, I can operate the lathe continuously all day without overheating. I have just added a Kreg fence to the Band-saw and a Ring Master to the lathe (remember this could be a 50 year old machine). My whole shop is a corner of a 1 car garage, when I use the tool I roll it to the center. With the 520 I have a very large table top with auxiliary tables it extends up to 8 feet wide. I also have the mortising tool and biscuit jointer and both use the fence or mitre gauge from the table saw. The disk sander also can use the setup from the table saw. Most of the time the setting from one tool carry on the the next, changing between tools takes less time than getting a standalone tool down from the shelf or out of the box.
How many standalone tools can make the claim they have been available for 50+ years and still has parts available and can be upgraded to the latest features.
17. John Casey Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 4:35 pm
Definitely Hot! I am SS owner for over 30 years! Name one tool company that stands with you and by you each and every year, that offers excellent tech support, that employs people that are down to earth, and provides Traveling Academy classes to increase your skills. Yes, it is a big space saver! Anyone that says stand alone tools are better, or does not like having to switch over to change tools, has never really worked on a ShopSmith. Switching over takes only a couple of minutes in most cases. This is a precision tool that holds its alignment, and is not just for the hobby type woodworker. The ShopSmith Bandsaw, lathe, biscuit and router setups are top notch. A person interested in wood working can grow with the SS, as his abilities increase. Yes, the initial price may sound high, but the five tools (basic SS) come close to what five stand alone tools would cost you, and can do more, takes up very little space. Any SS owner, that knows how to work the unit, sings the praises of the machine.
18. Jim Miller Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 4:42 pm
It’s hot, I have a small area for a shop and could not fit separate tools in it that would allow me to make what I can on the Shopsmith. My Shopsmith is upgraded to the 520 model and I have the Incra miter 5000 and TS III with attachments for a router table. I can make precision joints and build most anything I want with the Shopsmith. If I had the room and money a cabinet saw or euro-saw would be real nice as well as an 8″ long bed jointer and an 18″ planer. I have to be realistic and use the space and money I have, so the Shopsmith works out very well.
19. Nick Engler Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 5:35 pm
No need to chime in about the Shopsmith’s capability. If the ump-teen posts above mine didn’t convince you it’s a verstaile tool capable of helping you build anything short of a nuclear aircrat carrier, my two cents won’t do any good.
But I did want to say something about Shopsmith’s educational value. I work with kids, teaching them shop skills and getting them interested in engineering as we build airplanes. We have two Shopsmith Mark Vs in our middle-school shop (both donated by Shopsmith) and in this environment, I’ve found that the Shopsmith’s multipurpose design is in itself an important teaching tool. Because the students must go from mode to mode (rather than walking from machine to machine) they glean a much deeper understanding of what each tool does and how to set it up safely. Just as important, they learn to think through a project before they start. About the third time that they have to go back to the drill mode becasue they forgot to drill a hole they should have foreseen, they suddenly start studying the plans with a new-found fervor.
Shopsmith has always pitched its tools at beginners and it’s a very good fit. It teaches tool savvy, good work habits, problem solving, and the type of creativity you can only excercise when your central tool is a giant jig that you can configure in a hundred different ways. Over the 60 years since it appeared in 1948, it’s estimated that the Shopsmith has introduced at least 300,000 men and women to the joys of craftsmanship.
Furthermore, it’s a tool you don’t easily outgrow. Of the five modes of the basic unit, it does four of them as well as or better than anything on the market — sanding, drilling/boring, and turning. Even though I have a better-than-average selection of stand-alone tools in my personal shop, I have kept my Shopsmith because there are things you can do on it that you just can’t do as well (or at all!) on conventional tools.
With all good wishes,
Nick Engler
Author of “Woodworking Wisdom” and the “Workshop Companion” series
Host of Hands Online “Sawdust Sessions”
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End of Part 2
20. Berry Conway Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 5:40 pm
Hot. Got mine in ‘82 and I love it! I could never get all the stand alone tools to do what my Shopsmith can do in my 12 x 14 shop.
21. Eric Dykstra Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 6:10 pm
I wonder how many of these sit abandoned in basements? While they are very versatile i think i lot of people have bought these with the best of intentions but never got around to using them.
How difficult is the changeover from tool to tool?
22. Roy @ OKC Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 6:40 pm
Hot.
I bought an ‘83 lightly used 500 about a year ago. I’ve primarily used it to learn woodturning, horizontal boring, sharpening lathe chisels, bandsaw work, and a bit on the jointer. I’v had a Ryobi BT 5000 table saw for 10-12 years and would hate to rely solely on the 500 for any but basic table work. Although I’ve only cut one piece of scrap on it as a test so far, I foresee using the 500 as a second saw at some point on some project where I don’t want to change the Ryobi’s setup. I also have a floor standing drill press so it is easier to use that than converting the 500, but I’ve had occasion where I’ve used both. I definitely could not get all this functionality via individual tools in my 11X17 shop.
What I think really makes the SS great is the user community and the company. There are a few great sites that have some good ideas about how to get more out of the SS, from aligning and maintaining for beginners to building new add-ons to general techniques.
Eric: changeover time depends on what you’re doing, but most are pretty quick. I’m no speed demon, but would be surprised if it took me more than 90 seconds to swap from the bandsaw to the jointer; a little longer to put the table on and adjust the height precisely.
23. tbirdsaw Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 7:14 pm
Hot. My grandfather had a very old one… probably over 40 years old. It was still running when we finally sold it (no space at the time to keep it!) He made dozens of toys on it for us kids.
24. Mike Lee Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 7:30 pm
Not. For the money you pay for this machine, you can buy a lot of tools. Don’t worry, I would found a place for them like in the bedroom, spare room or the shed.
25. Al S. Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 7:48 pm
Hot! My Mark V was made in 1960 and is still making sawdust. Fantastic customer service from a company that is interested in EDUCATING and SATISFYING their customers, not just taking their hard earned money. A dependable, accurate, well made, heavy-duty, USA built, multi-function, super versatile power tool with a manufacturer that stands behind it 100 percent. Buy a Shopsmith and you become part of a family of satisfied owners and enthusiasts. Thank you Shopsmith!!
26. Ralph Livingston Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 7:57 pm
Very Hot:
I purchased my Shopsmith 500 in ‘83, upgraded to 510 in ‘90 and again to the latest 520 version in ‘99. This says a lot for a company’s interest in it’s products and customers - to make a product that is upgradeable.
The advantage of stand alone tools is overstated. They require more space and electrical capacity than most people have. If you wish to place your shop in a garage or basement the Shopsmith is definitely superior It can be operated on a standard 15 amp circuit, and moved out of the way if a space must serve multiple purposes.
My Shopsmith has over 50 inches of ripping capacity. I can trim 1/16 inch of the 8′ edge of a sheet of plywood. A stand alone saw that can do the same will cost several thousand dollars and weigh over 900 lbs. Even at that, you would probably have to order an expensive aftermarket fence to equal the quality of the fence that is standard on the 520.
Yes. You can go the one of the big box retailers and find cheaper stand alone tools. However you will end up with a lot of machines powered with noisy short life universal type motors.
If you buy Shopsmith you will have a quality machine that is built to last through several generations.
27. Rick Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 9:43 pm
Hot.
I bought my 500 as a package along with the bandsaw and jointer in 1982. I was not a newcomer to woodworking but the jointer didn’t get used for nearly a year. I had heard so many horror stories about jointers that I was basically afraid of it. Until, that is, both my wife and I attended a 3 day class at Shopsmith. Since then, I only have respect for, rather than fear of, the jointer. Yes, there are a few suppliers that offer classes but how many manufacturers educate their owners?
I would not have the capability that I have today if I would have had to buy separate tools because of both space and cost. Sure, separate tools are possible for less money… and less quality. Shopsmith doesn’t make tools with the “throw it away in a year or two and get ‘em to buy a new one” attitude.
Oh, and most guys that complain about the change-over time have never even touched a Shopsmith.
28. Kurt Schwind Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 10:17 pm
I have to admit, I knew this was going to be a popular thread, but I really didn’t think it was going to be so lopsided in favor of ‘hot’. Did we get a rash of new users at toolmonger recently from another site? Or are these long time toolmongers that all happen to have a Shopsmith? What about accuracy in the shopsmith? I don’t see a lot of guages, what do you use to line up the fence to the right distance? A tape measure?
Like I said early on, this thread really interests me, I even just recently sent for and received the DVD from the shopsmith site. I won’t be getting a unit, but that’s mostly because of cost. I just can’t swing $3k right now. Heck, I’m still saving up for a $250 planer.
29. confused Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 10:49 pm
"I wonder how many of these sit abandoned in basements? While they are very versatile i think i lot of people have bought these with the best of intentions but never got around to using them."
That’s kind of an unfair jab. The same could be said of $15,000 worth of stand-alone tools. That has nothing to do with the tool at all, just the owner. (Though this is often-used accusation that the Shopsmith is not worth owning?!)
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End of Part 3
30. Nick Engler Says:
November 6th, 2007 at 12:56 am
Kurt, the Shopsmith Model 520 has a built-in indexable magnetic rule that is accurate to 1/64″. I teach my students to use a dial indicator to set the fence when greater accuracy is required. An adjustable stop collar lets you adjust the table/blade height to the nearest 1/128″. The onboard radial measuring devices read to the nearest 1 degree and the degree markings are far enough apart to estimate to the nearest 1/4 degree with reasonable accuracy. With a good inclinometer (such as a Wixey), you can set the miter gauge and the table/blade angle to the nearest 1/100 of a degree. All together, the accuracy and repeatability of the Shopsmith is easy to hold to .005″ and .01 degree if you know what you’re doing. Good enough for government work, as the saying goes.
With all good wishes,
Nick
31. Chuck Says:
November 6th, 2007 at 1:32 am
This is HOT! I’ve used various woodworking tools for over 50 years. Sold a Radial arm saw about 10 years ago and bought a Shopsmith modle 510. Best thing I ever did! Not only is the Mark V stable and precision accurate - it is very versitile. Ever need a horizontal drill, because your drill press won’t extend far enough? The Mark V has it. In addition to the mark V itself - there are two additional features that are available, comming with the Shopsmith Mark V.
First there are the assessory tools that can be added. How about a bandsaw, a jointer, a belt sander, a thickness planer and one of the newest best tools to come across the market since they first sliced bread. This is the Overhead Pin Router attachment. With this attachment you can not only do pin routing (eg. making inlaid abolone inserts in a guitar fret board) but you can also make all types of joints, dados, rabets and edge routing.
Second you get the really outstanding service of the Shopsmith Company. Every phone answerer is trained and knowledgable about all parts of any machine they make. The service and support are unequaled by any other manufacturer I have ever contacted. What other company have you ever heared of that fully suports machines they made 30 to 40 years ago? What other company has the need to give this type of support? The answer is none, because if someone elses machines are still running - they have been repaired or modified by the ingeneuity of the user(s). There just is no company support unless you want to buy new!
Yes, this is a beginner’s machine. BUT, it is also a MASTER CRAFTSMAN’S machine. For a beginner, the Mark V comes with a complete manual and self taught woodworking course including sawing, turning, drilling, joint making and safety. If someone has one of these machines just sitting in a corner catching dust - it is truly the problem of the owner.
32. Richard Wagner Says:
November 6th, 2007 at 4:06 am
HOT, HOT, HOT
I have had my Shopsmith for twenty five years. That’s a long time for a machine that is used as much as mine is. It is still in excellent condition. Oh, it’s a little scratched and dented from having been moved six times but it still gives me the accuracy that I demand. I can still change from one mode to another and still get 1/64″ accuracy, repeatably.
Yes, I take care of this baby. It gets lubricated, cleaned and waxed on schedule. But it has to be that way. I work it hard and I don’t want down time.
I have a table saw, a drill press, a horizontal boring machine, a disk sander, a belt sander, a lathe, a router, a shaper, a jointer, a band saw, a jigsaw. I have all of these tools in a garage. Thery are not stored there, they are used - almost daily.
This is what brought me to Shopsmith and this is what keeps me using my Shopsmith. I can have a full function woodshop in less space that many people use to park their two cars. I needed that because I did not have a large space in which to work but I would not give up woodworking just because I relocated frequently.
That is another point. This Shopsmith has been torn down, relocated and set back up six times. It is none the worse for wear. It is still accurate in all of its many functions. I do alignments with a good quality steel rule, engineer’s square and a good level. I couldn’t ask for more and this machine is twenty+ years old. I recheck occasionally with a dial gauge and a wixey but that is all I do, recheck.
Customer service plays a big part in this. Shopsmith still provides technical support and logistical support for nearly all of the machines that have been manufactured by them. You will never find a company that is more ready and able to support their product line than Shopsmith.
Yes, I would say it is HOT, HOT, HOT.
33. Ed Says:
November 6th, 2007 at 7:10 am
Hot.
The only thing I can add is that my machine was made in 1954 and still gets used almost daily. Only thing I had to replace was the drill chuck which seems to have walked away one day. 53 years later I can still get parts.
34. Rembret Says:
November 6th, 2007 at 8:21 am
I agree with Eric Dykstra. These seem to be very popular with those who are just getting into woodworking. Shopsmith does a great job selling them on the versatility of the tool at their shopping mall demos. They buy them - then get bored or disenchanted and the tools just collect dust. I personally know of two instances where this has happened.
Fine Woodworking did an article a couple of years ago about how novices could deliberately build a collection of tools (both power and hand) in steps as their skills grow. It’s worth reading if you are just getting into woodworking.
I am also surprised at the overwhelming number of positive posts showing up here. Did someone place a link at the Shopsmith User Group site? … to each his own.
35. confused Says:
November 6th, 2007 at 8:49 am
"I agree with Eric Dykstra. These seem to be very popular with those who are just getting into woodworking. Shopsmith does a great job selling them on the versatility of the tool at their shopping mall demos. They buy them - then get bored or disenchanted and the tools just collect dust. I personally know of two instances where this has happened."
Yet again… this has nothing to do with the tool. Example: I easily have about $1000 worth of very expensive fishing equipment - by the above comments and reasoning, then I guess it must have been no good to begin with since it is just sitting in the corner not being used. (Matter of fact, I simply lost interest in it, not because the gear/tackle isn’t any good.)
Please review the tool based on its merits or weaknesses and not the ineptitude of its owner/user.
36. Kaden Says:
November 6th, 2007 at 9:42 am
About 6 months ago I was foraging at one of my regular scrapyards when one came through the gates as salvage from a defunct boatmaker on the north shore. It had seen a lotta use, but was obviously well loved, and came with a big-ass custom built anvil style case for the attachements (of which there seemed to be every freakin’ one of ‘em). The assembled multitude of contractors, foragers and yard grunts did a collective jaw-drop, followed by a frenzy of wallet checking and cel phone fumbling that was over-the-top frantic. It sold less than 10 minutes after it came off the scale for $1500 Cdn. (No ‘by the pound commodity metal’ pricing on this one).
37. Idaho Ed Says:
November 6th, 2007 at 9:49 am
HOT
As a long-time user (Dad brought one home in 1957 and there has been one in my life ever since) I can say the Shopsmith has made it possible for me to build furniture, canoes, sheds, toys and more in shops that have never been larger than a single car garage and most were much smaller. The machine is accurate and versatile, parts are easy to get, upgrades come along regularly and customer service is second to none. My current Shopsmith was built in 1954; I swapped out the headstock for a newer one, upgraded the saw fence and a few small items and its still going strong.
People who have heard of but never actually used the machine tend to believe that there are three problems with the Shopsmith, namely: the tilting saw table, the trouble of changing modes and the price. People who use the machine for even a short time realize that all these issues are really “non-issues.” I love the tilting table, especially when disk sanding and in drill press mode; change-overs are actually quite simple and the price is well in line with stand-alone tools of comparable quality.
Unless a user is setting up a production shop with dedicated machines, the Shopsmith definitely holds its own against the stand-alone machines.
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End of Part 4
38. Rembret Says:
November 6th, 2007 at 10:36 am
@confused: point taken. I’ll concede that that the Shopsmith is well made, cleverly designed and well supported by the factory. My issue should be directed at how they are marketed. Which in my experience is toward the novice woodworking crowd as the only tool they’ll ever need. I have never seen a Shopsmith in any professional woodworking shop and that’s the most telling indictment for me.
39. Blane Says:
November 6th, 2007 at 12:45 pm
Rembret, you get what you pay for. Did I buy my machine as a novice woodworker? Yes. Have I seen it in professional woodworking shops being used? Yes and their work is outstanding.. Could I have purchased stand alone tools? Yes. Why didn’t I do this? Because of a lack of space. This system has grown over the years and has greatly exceeded my expectations. Shopsmith takes the time to answer woodworking questions and set up concerning their machine, something I have yet to experience form other manufacturers and retailers. You get fast, friendly customer service long after the sale. With the number of machines that Shopsmith has sold over the years, sure you’re going to find some gathering dust, but I’m sure you can make the same statement about any other tool that is sols today.
I made my purchase after having puchased other stand alone tools. If I had to do it over again, I would rather purchase the Shopsmith attachments in order to have more space in my workshop. My first tablesaw, made by Delta burned out after two years of work. I never have had any trouble using the Shopsmith. I also like the fact it is made here in the U.S. and that my dollar is helping a true domestic industry rather than a corporation who has decide to move their production overseas.
40. Deathwish Says:
November 6th, 2007 at 1:39 pm
HOT! I’m a big fan.
I bought mine several years ago for $500 used, it’s a 1983 model 500. I already had a Delta Contractor style table saw, and I’ve only ever tried once to use the Mark V as a table saw
As my tool arsenal has expanded, I’ve used it less and less. As of late, it gets used mostly as a variable speed lathe and disc sander . . . at both of those it is excellent!
It’s also nice having a second drill press when I need it . . . while working on a recent project, I had people over working with me, I set up the mark V to drill and used my Delta Drill press as a spindle sander to finish off the holes. Redundancy is not a bad thing.
All that said, yes, a lot of these comments are coming in via a link at another site . . . when I saw the comment above, I figured I knew where . . . and here it is . . .
http://www.shopsmith.net/forums/showthread.htm?t=905
41. confused Says:
November 6th, 2007 at 2:08 pm
"I have never seen a Shopsmith in any professional woodworking shop and that’s the most telling indictment for me."
Not to beleaguer the issue, but the above is a bit of an odd statement. Example: I think most guys who have a Tormek sharpening system say it is a very good, very solid machine. I’ve seen quite a few professional cabinetry shops and other prof. woodworking shops all across the MidWest. …Never once have I seen a Tormek sharpening system, though. Now I guess I’ll have to question all of the reviews I’ve read that say it is a great sharpening system because a tool is only as good as the number of times it is seen in professional use.
42. Rembret Says:
November 6th, 2007 at 2:08 pm
Thanks Deathwish. I REALLY don’t have an ax to grind with Shopsmith, but for the sake of full disclosure, everyone should know that the Shopsmith webmaster has encouraged his ‘posters’ to link over here and ‘brag’ about SS. I would not consider this an objective discussion if I was considering a purchase. Do your own research before spending your hard earned money.
43. Ed Says:
November 6th, 2007 at 2:14 pm
Hot! Hot! Hot! Not only do you get an excellent machine you get manufacture support. Name another machine sold that comes with a complete maintaince manual, self study wood working course, a book filled with techniques, shortcuts and hints written specifically for the Shopsmith. Add to that online video training, weekly emails of woodworking tips and time saving ideas. Finally add in a customer service group that knows woodworking and the tools they sale well enough to suggest ways to increase your woodworking skills.
The machine is made in America, accurate to 1/64 or better and has built in repeatability, has an excellent service history, saves space and resources and is versatile. What more could anyone want?
44. Nick Engler Says:
November 6th, 2007 at 2:19 pm
“I have never seen a Shopsmith in any professional woodworking shop and that’s the most telling indictment for me.”
I’ve written 53 books on woodworking and more magazine articles than I can remember. I’ve taught wood technology at the University of Cincinnati and am presently a contributing editor to Popular Woodworking. I’ve had a Shopsmith in my shop since 1979. That count?
45. Nick Engler Says:
November 6th, 2007 at 3:27 pm
“…for the sake of full disclosure, everyone should know that the Shopsmith webmaster has encouraged his ‘posters’ to link over here and ‘brag’ about SS. I would not consider this an objective discussion if I was considering a purchase.”
Owning a Shopsmith in a stand-alone tool world is a lot like owning an Apple in a PC world. Apple owners bond and react more passionately when you ask about their brand choice because they are in a minority. They oftentimes listen to people who have no experience with their chosen brand spout myths and misconceptions as if they were infallible truths. It’s no wonder people in this situation would seize upon an opportunity to tell their side of the story. But what you are suggesting — and rightly so — is that someone who considering a major purchase should seek evenhanded information from someone who understands and has experience with both multipurpose and stand-alone woodworking tools.
Several people who have written in here obviously fall into that category, and I am one of them. Over the thirty-some years that I have been writing and editing woodworking information, I have tested many, many tools. I have used both multipurpose tools and stand-alone tools on a continuing basis for all that time. Shopsmith, like every other tool in my shop, has it’s strengths and weaknesses. But I can say with confidence and years of experience to back it up, it will produce high-calibur craftsmanship in the hands of a good craftsman. I wouldn’t recommend it for production woodworking not because it couldn’t be adapted to the task but because it’s overqualified for the job.
I would also caution that it’s not a machine for dummies. It’s a thinking man’s tool, there’s no doubt in my mind about that. To those who say that it’s complexity discourages beginners, I would have to agree somewhat. Students with rigid minds and little creativity have trouble warming to the Shopsmith. But I’ve found that teaching good craftsmanship is all about problem solving. And for those folks with the mental accuity to grasp a woodworking problem and solve it, this machine gives them a lot to work with.
Finally, for those people who are considering a purchase, I would not necessarily dismiss what has been going on in this blog as “bragging.” This is nothing less than an expression of passion and community. The fact that so many people from the Shopsmith forum have wandered over here to express their opinions should be chalked up in the “Pro” column. It’s certainly not a “Con.” I, for one, like being part of a supportive community that’s passionate about their tools and their craftsmanship.
With all good wishes,
Nick
46. Mike Says:
November 6th, 2007 at 4:11 pm
I have 3. My fathers old 10ER. Still runs great. The one I purchased (500)in 1972, that I use every day and is still in great shape, my fathers new machine (also a 500) he got in 1995. ( In storage for my kids). Sure you can get good full size machines but they have served well and are perfect for the small shop. I would not be without one. No I did not come from the shopsmith site, but think I will visit it now.
Good Luck
47. Ralph Livingston Says:
November 6th, 2007 at 7:23 pm
So what if some of us came over from a Shopsmith oriented forum. The purpose of the Toolmonger reviews is to obtain opinions from experienced users of a particular tool. What good is a review of a tool by someone who has never used it?
Tons of experience is exactly what you find in these reviews of the Shopsmith. Several respondents have used this machine for 25 years, and in some cases, other family members used it even earlier. Obviously Shopsmith owners are very satisfied with the product. Name me just one other brand of woodworking tool that has created so many satisfied customers through this kind of time period.
A review should be judged on it’s merits - not from where the reviewer came from.
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End of Part 5
ryanbp01
11-07-2007, 07:52 AM
All I can say is WOW!
BPR
paul heller
11-07-2007, 08:03 AM
Nick, your last reply is excellent. The Apple comparison, and the suggested value thereof, is a good one.
I've posted in there two times now. How fun.
Paul
OK, I hope I don't offend anyone :o, but I frequent the Toolmonger blog and when I read the many positive comments on the Shopsmith, I could not help but wonder: What is the average age of the Shopsmith users on this website and/or in general? Actually, I'm not so much interested in the age of users as I am in the current-cy of the Shopsmith legacy.
Many of the comments I read reference the purchase of Shopsmiths in the 70s and 80s, but very few seem to mention buying their Shopsmiths in the past decade. Is this just a coincidence (i.e., people only mention when they bought their Shopsmith to show how durable to it). Generally, I've had the impression that the Shopsmith is kind of a historical oddity that harkens from the "nifty fifties" (and sixties) when Vegomatic-type devices were all the rage.
Again, I hope this doesn't come across as inflammatory. I'm genuinely curious and would love to read your opinions.
C