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Old 04-28-2011, 08:26 PM
e.friedl e.friedl is offline
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Question Mark 7 vs Mark VII

I'm not sure how to put this but I think it needs to be discussed. I have the old Mark VII and I think perhaps we need to encourage a differentiation in this forum. What do you think about using Mark VII for the old machine and Mark 7 for the new version? I'm afraid of a lot of confusion if we don't try something.
Ed
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Old 04-28-2011, 08:34 PM
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JPG40504 JPG40504 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e.friedl
I'm not sure how to put this but I think it needs to be discussed. I have the old Mark VII and I think perhaps we need to encourage a differentiation in this forum. What do you think about using Mark VII for the old machine and Mark 7 for the new version? I'm afraid of a lot of confusion if we don't try something.
Ed

That is what every one should be doing!!!!

They should also be distinguishing between a Mark 5 and a Mark V.

However since even ss is sloppy with 5/V nomenclature, we have a few generations of folks who do not know there is anything but a V.

So the VII/7 melding is an understandable result. A new 7 must be an upgraded V and is a VII. Right? Unfortunately no!
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Old 04-28-2011, 08:44 PM
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robinson46176 robinson46176 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPG40504
That is what every one should be doing!!!!

They should also be distinguishing between a Mark 5 and a Mark V.

However since even ss is sloppy with 5/V nomenclature, we have a few generations of folks who do not know there is anything but a V.

So the VII/7 melding is an understandable result. A new 7 must be an upgraded V and is a VII. Right? Unfortunately no!



I try very hard to always refer to my VII's as "old" Mark VII.


.
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I did not equip with Shopsmiths in spite of the setups but because of them.
1 1988 - Mark V 510 (bought new), 4 Poly vee 1 1/8th HP Mark V's, Mark VII, 1 Mark V Mini, 1 Frankensmith, 1 10-ER, 1 Mark V Push-me-Pull-me Drillpress, SS bandsaw, belt sander, jointer, jigsaw, shaper attach, mortising attach, TS-3650 Rigid tablesaw, RAS, 6" long bed jointer, Foley/Belsaw Planer/molder/ripsaw, 1" sander, oscillating spindle/belt sander, Scroll saw, Woodmizer sawmill
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Old 04-29-2011, 10:49 AM
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ryanbp01 ryanbp01 is offline
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Personally, I've found this discussion extremely entertaining. At least people can recognize Arabic and Roman numerals. I suppose someone could write the numbers in a completely different language to really mess with our minds, but that would be too cruel. I never really saw what the difference is anyway; after all isn't the main change to either machine the Power-Pro technology?

Now, just for a little fun and philosophical discussion, what should the new designation be for a double-tilting 520? It's not a Mark V/5 or a Mark VII/7.

BPR
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Old 04-29-2011, 11:13 AM
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charlese charlese is offline
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Sorry! My feeble mind does not recognize the difference between a 5 and a V. Likewise a 7 or a VII. Oh yeah, I certainly can see that one is an Arabic numeral and the other is a Roman numeral, however when reading (and I do so without moving my lips) these numerals register as fives or sevens.

I'm in sync with BPR's fun question. IMO it wouldn't be wrong to talk about an "old model double tilter" vs. a "new model double tilter". Or a "510, Mark V Double Tilter", or a "520 Mark....
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Old 04-29-2011, 11:14 AM
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I just want t be clear on the lineage of such things
Shopsmith 10/10ER BY Magna Engineering
Shopsmith Mark 5 By Magna Engneering
Shopsmith Mark VII By Magna Engineering
Shopsmith Mark V By Shopsmith Inc.
Model 500
Model 510
Model 520
Shopsmith Mark 7 By Shopsmith Inc.

a 5 can be upgraded to a 510 or 520 but is still a 5

a 5 is in most respects the same as a V model 500 except for the older greeny/goldy with the gilmer drive and larger bench tubes et al and other differences in the headstock etc.

a 5 or a V can in most cases (some 5s require updated bench tubes) be upgraded to a 7

a VII can never be 5 or a V
a VII can never be a 510, 520 or 7 (I wonder if any one will ever try to put a power pro motor and controller on a VII that would be interesting. But it would still be a VII)

So in our world
5 ~= V
BUT
VII != 7

correct?
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Old 04-29-2011, 11:37 AM
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robinson46176 robinson46176 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terrydowning
I just want t be clear on the lineage of such things
Shopsmith 10/10ER BY Magna Engineering
Shopsmith Mark 5 By Magna Engneering
Shopsmith Mark VII By Magna Engineering
Shopsmith Mark V By Shopsmith Inc.
Model 500
Model 510
Model 520
Shopsmith Mark 7 By Shopsmith Inc.

a 5 can be upgraded to a 510 or 520 but is still a 5

a 5 is in most respects the same as a V model 500 except for the older greeny/goldy with the gilmer drive and larger bench tubes et al and other differences in the headstock etc.

a 5 or a V can in most cases (some 5s require updated bench tubes) be upgraded to a 7

a VII can never be 5 or a V
a VII can never be a 510, 520 or 7 (I wonder if any one will ever try to put a power pro motor and controller on a VII that would be interesting. But it would still be a VII)

So in our world
5 ~= V
BUT
VII != 7

correct?



Just for fun From my "old" Mark VII...

Name:  SS tag 2.JPG
Views: 353
Size:  74.3 KB


.
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farmer
Francis Robinson
I did not equip with Shopsmiths in spite of the setups but because of them.
1 1988 - Mark V 510 (bought new), 4 Poly vee 1 1/8th HP Mark V's, Mark VII, 1 Mark V Mini, 1 Frankensmith, 1 10-ER, 1 Mark V Push-me-Pull-me Drillpress, SS bandsaw, belt sander, jointer, jigsaw, shaper attach, mortising attach, TS-3650 Rigid tablesaw, RAS, 6" long bed jointer, Foley/Belsaw Planer/molder/ripsaw, 1" sander, oscillating spindle/belt sander, Scroll saw, Woodmizer sawmill
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Old 04-29-2011, 12:43 PM
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Farmer you just had to do that didn't you LOL, I thought of that from my old MK VII did was not quick enough.
Love it. I also love this group.
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  #9  
Old 04-29-2011, 01:34 PM
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charlese charlese is offline
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GREAT!!!! Thanks Francis! This is fun!...... So--- a genuine VII is also a 7!

Thank goodness, I can still see the difference from a photo. As I think the older model sits on a big box and the new one sits on slanting legs.

Like previously said, they still read the same to me. So this slow brain, will have to see a photo, or read additional adjectives along with the nomenclature to tell the difference .
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Old 04-29-2011, 01:39 PM
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JPG40504 JPG40504 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terrydowning
I just want t be clear on the lineage of such things
Shopsmith 10/10ER BY Magna Engineering
Shopsmith Mark 5 By Magna Engneering
Shopsmith Mark VII By Magna Engineering
Shopsmith Mark V By Shopsmith Inc.
Model 500
Model 510
Model 520
Shopsmith Mark 7 By Shopsmith Inc.

a 5 can be upgraded to a 510 or 520 but is still a 5

a 5 is in most respects the same as a V model 500 except for the older greeny/goldy with the gilmer drive and larger bench tubes et al and other differences in the headstock etc.

a 5 or a V can in most cases (some 5s require updated bench tubes) be upgraded to a 7

a VII can never be 5 or a V
a VII can never be a 510, 520 or 7 (I wonder if any one will ever try to put a power pro motor and controller on a VII that would be interesting. But it would still be a VII) SEE BELOW

So in our world
5 ~= V
BUT
VII != 7

correct?

Pretty much!!! (Add Mark 5 by Yuba Power Products, Mark 5 by Magna American, and change Mark VII to Magna American And add Power Pro by RLF(?) Tools(?)).

The Mark V is a reincarnation (by SS Inc.) of the previous manufacturer's Mark 5.

There are minor differences in the Marl V from the earlier models.

Functionally they are identical(except for saw blade size).

MOST parts are interchangable.

Some attachments are model specific.

A Mark 7 is a Mark V with different table posts, end castings, and a power pro headstock.

A Mark VII is an entirely different design. Much is 'common' however.



RE: Mark VII to 510/520. Off the top of my head, That should be possible. The way tubes are the same, the spt mounts are the same(similar dimension...) After all the difference is carriage/main table, floating/extension tables, fence, tubes etc. The power pro will fit also!


Farmer: I would have been disappointed had you not posted that pix....again!

See! Magna American was as confused as SS Inc.!



I believe trademark ownership is the reason for all the 5/V; VII/7 silliness. However when searching for replacement parts, the silliness becomes quite serious!
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